ORLANDO -- A growing number of Orange County residents think there's been a price to pay for the county's rapid growth, particularly on the highways where traffic is getting more and more congested.

That growth is one reason a group of citizens formed a grassroots coalition last year called Community Challenges and held a series of forums to deal with issues like transportation, smart growth and open-space and environmental issues. But while they agreed on the need to find alternative transportation methods, one of the leading proposals -- for a commuter rail line connecting Orange County to both Osceola and Volusia counties -- proved to be very controversial when the citizens group held its final meeting last week.

Several members of the audience dismissed commuter rail as a costly boondoggle that will take too long to build and cost far too much, without a guarantee of a payback in terms of a steady ridership. Other possible solutions -- such as more pedestrian walkways, bike paths and expanded bus service -- proved more universally acceptable.

"It's a losing proposition," said Neil Powell, a member of the Edgewood City Council, of a commuter rail line. "My son went to school in Miami and they have what is called Tri-Rail. Last week they had a crash and no one could ride for seven hours."

There were so many disagreements on the plan that it prompted Harry Barley, director of the planning agency Metroplan Orlando, to comment, "Change is hard, isn't it? The changes are happening, and we need to know how to deal with it."

The meeting, held at the Garden House at the Happy P. Leu Gardens in downtown Orlando, came just a few weeks after the Orange County Commission voted to spend $44 million to help pay for a commuter rail to run through Central Florida. The plan calls for a proposed 61-mile rail line running from DeLand in Volusia County to Poinciana Boulevard in Osceola County. It would also pass through Seminole County and downtown Orlando. Construction could begin by 2007, with the northern leg of the route into Volusia County opening to the public in 2009, and the southern leg into Osceola County and close to Four Corners completed by 2011.

Ironically, the citizens group formed because of the defeat of Mobility 20/20, a ballot question that Orange County residents voted on in 2003. Proposed by Orange County Mayor Rich Crotty and Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, it would have raised the county's sales tax with the money being used to fund a series of transportation improvement projects, including an investment in commuter rail. But citizens rejected the referendum, 54 percent to 46 percent.

"This (effort) came about because of the demise of Mobility 20/20," said Lou Treadway, a member of Community Challenges' steering committee. "We decided it was necessary to start a grass-roots group so we could address the issues in Orange County. Orange is, in my opinion, the leader in Central Florida, and it needs to get its act together."

Community Challenges held a series of workshops that were open to the public.

"We've held four community forums that drew 400 people at each one," said Marilyn Crotty, a member of the steering committee and the director of the Florida Institute of Government at the University of Florida. "These were stakeholders who care about the future of Orange County. We wanted to find things that could be done now to try to move us to the future that we all desire."

They gathered one last time on Aug. 24 to prepare suggested recommendations and reach a consensus on where they wanted to take the county in the future. The steering committee plans to forward a final report to Orange County's political leaders.

"We've got to look outside the box because the old ways of doing things are not working, so we need new ideas," Treadway said. "This is an opportunity for us to put together a plan for local government to consider so we don't become another Los Angeles."

Crotty acknowledged that during the course of the forums, one issue kept bogging them down: how to pay for possible improvements like bike paths or expanded bus service.

"That's the sticky point that always rears its head, how to pay for it," she said. "Money is always an issue here. There is a need for public education for funding sources."

The consensus, if one was reached, was on the need to make it easier for people to get around the county without getting held up on traffic-congested highways.

"We want to make sure we are connected and are not isolated communities, and have ways to engage with others in our community," Crotty said. "There's not a right or wrong way to live in this area. So there should be some choices in terms of housing and choices in terms of transportation and choices in terms of parks and recreation. Choices was a major theme for us. "

But if the choice comes down to a commuter rail line, Powell said, it will be a wasted effort.

"In theory, it's great," he said, but cautioned that there are train routes that now run through Edgewood, and mostly it just brings motor vehicle traffic to a crawl.

"In my community we have 21 rails coming through," he said. "Railroad tracks going up and down, up and down. My people aren't happy about that."

Orange County Commissioner Bob Sindler said that while the commission made an initial commitment to the rail line, there are still serious questions about the project's future.

"The problem that comes on a commuter rail system from Deland to Osceola County is the study shows the number of people using it -- compared to the enormous cost of it -- is just not cost effective," Sindler said.

He estimated that the project's cost would ultimately top out at between $1 billion and $2 billion.

There are estimates that the rail line would attract 335,000 passengers a day, but it wasn't clear if those numbers would be enough to pay off the project, he said.

As an alternative, Sindler said commissioners should consider upgrading existing rail lines in the region that are underutilized.

"There are other fixed rail routes that have been discussed," he said, including a line that runs from the Mount Dora/Eustis area of Lake County into Orlando.

"Their line may be far more cost effective," he said. "But so far, we have not been able to get anybody to do a study on it."

Crotty stressed that it was important not to get bogged down in disagreements over issues like rail service.

"Let's not get fixed on the notion of commuter rail," she said. "This forum was not intended to be pro or con for any particular transportation system. We need a variety of options to move people safely to where they want to go."

She also urged people to look at the big picture.

"We will not stop growing," she said. "Central Florida is going to continue to attract people. As they come, we have to make sure we create an environment that's healthy and safe and attractive. We want a beautiful community. The standards should be high."

Commuter rail wasn't the only transportation improvement option on the table. More express bus routes, bike paths and even new roads were suggested.

"New or existing roads should be built with people in mind," Crotty said. "We should have businesses along those routes that are easy for people to get to. We want design standards that maximize pedestrian safety."

One popular notion was to end the tolls on State Route 408, which links Orlando to Interstate 4 and Florida's Turnpike, which also has tolls.

But Ocoee Mayor Scott Vandergrift said it was a pipe dream to think the state would abandon the cash cow known as the tolls.

"For those of you who believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, they also believe the tolls will come off the expressway anytime soon," he said. "The state has to put money into tollways to get them built, to subsidize them. That's the only way we're building expressways, as toll ways."

The Orange County Commission's vote to endorse a commuter rail project came after two major setbacks for the notion of a rail line in Central Florida. One was the defeat of the Mobility 20/ 20 referendum. The other was the decision by Florida voters last November to repeal the proposed commuter rail line linking the Orlando International Airport to Walt Disney World, and eventually to Tampa, with a possible stop in Northeast Polk County.

Florida voters had endorsed the rail line in a statewide referendum in November 2000, supporting it by a 53-47 percent margin. But after lobbying by Gov. Jeb Bush and Chief Financial Officer Tom Gallagher that the rail line was too costly to build, Floridians rejected the idea the second time around by a 2-1 margin.